The other day, a few of my Brother Knights and I were enjoying a refreshing beverage and discussing common sins that we think people don't think are sins. Obviously masturbation came up.
This particular sin is one that always sparks a good discussion. You have those that believe that masturbation is a natural act and they have to shave their palms regularly and those who believe it is truly a sin.
While we were discussing the merits of both sides of the topic, our Priest walks in and joins the discussion. Our Priest loves our discussions and actually enjoys being a part of them.
Father explains to us that masturbation is one of the causes of marital decline. He explains that when a person masturbates, they are usually visualizing someone other than their spouse. As they pleasure themselves thinking of someone else, this actually creates a rift in the relationship with their married spouse. Over time this rift can become quite large and the man feels that the wife doesn't meet his needs and that leads to infidelity. He also stated that pornography has the same affect.
Since statistics show that 50% of all marriages fail within 5 years, it is hard to argue with Father's logic.
Me being the smart ass that i am asked him, "Father, if God didn't want me to play with it, why didn't he put it on my back between my shoulder blades?"
Father looks at me and smiles and said "Ray, knowing you like i do, you would find a way to abuse it if it was on your back"
What can i say, the man knows me.
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15 comments:
But if you believe that the act of masturbating is wrong, then it doesn’t matter what the circumstances are; it is wrong every time. I still haven’t convinced the masses, or you for that matter, that masturbation is not wrong have I? “Sex outside of marriage is adultery. If you are having sex with yourself then it is outside of marriage.” I agree. But I have never had sex with myself. I am not that flexible. Masturbation is not sex. Let me repeat: masturbation is not sex. Otherwise, it would be called sex. For example, Bill Clinton said he did not have sexual relations with Monica. He lied. She performed oral SEX on him. Oral sex, anal sex, heterosexual sex, homosexual sex, etc… get the point? All of these sexual practices end in sex. Masturbation does not because it is not sex. Once again, please show me in the bible where masturbation is sex. Can’t do it.
You don’t have to masturbate to have lust in your heart. Driving down the road and you see a billboard with a beautiful woman and you think to yourself how you would like to spread her ankles as far apart as you can and do wild, freaky things to her. You have just committed a sin. You have just committed adultery in your heart. But, if you are sitting in a hotel room 500 miles from home for three weeks straight on a job and you are thinking of your spouse and decided to crank one out, that is not committing adultery nor is it sex outside of marriage and that my friend is why masturbation, when thinking of no one or thinking of your spouse is okay and not a sin. You are not committing adultery and you are not having sex outside of marriage.
Now, if you are masturbating every afternoon when you get home from work, this is in excess, and that is arguably wrong. Let’s look at alcohol. A beer from time to time is okay but getting sloshed every night is wrong. A person defending his family whose life is in danger shoots an intruder; that is okay. A punk drug addict shoots his rival because he is losing business; that is wrong. Same act, same caliber weapon, same amount of shots, but two different circumstances make these two acts, which are identical, different.
That is how masturbation can be wrong and can be okay. It is all about the circumstances; just like a lot of other sins. And that interpretation, which we have discussed in other debates, is where the true debate lies. I simply read the bible for what it is. And live my life according to it’s rules. Later.
comments are posted out of order.
First of all, let’s discuss what is wrong, biblically, with masturbation. It is kind of like the argument on abortion. No one will argue that killing a human is right. The whole abortion stance is that unborn babies are not human. That is the argument you have to work on and not get caught up in arguing over non-issues. Let me explain: go and ask any one, pro-life or pro-choice if it is alright to kill toddlers. Everyone will say “No, it is not right”. So, everyone agrees then ending life is wrong be it toddler, adult, senior citizen. The true argument lies in the fact of when a fetus becomes a life. And of course, anyone without their head up their ass knows that this takes place upon conception and those that say otherwise do so to benefit themselves and their “loose” lifestyle.
So, is the act of masturbation itself wrong or is it the fantasizing about someone other than your spouse which is considered adultery that is wrong? Is it wrong for both male and females to masturbate?
Part 2.....
These are the questions I will answer for you. Now, crack open your bible and quote me a verse which tells me specifically that masturbation is wrong. Still looking? You won’t find one because there is not one.
Matthew 5:28 – “You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who has looked a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.”
So, if you are masturbating and thinking of a woman whom you are not married to, or in some cases in west Texas, another man, then you are committing adultery in God’s eyes. I think we can all agree on this. But what if I am visualizing my wife? This is the true question. Masturbation, like Father said, USUALLY involves the masturbator visualizing someone other than their spouse. This is where porn comes in. Porn gives people the visual fantasy of another women or man and when masturbating to that person on TV, magazine, or computer, you are committing adultery. And this is the wedge that is slowly driven between a man and a women in a marriage. When the spouse is not enough and one looks for other avenues to pleasure themselves; eventually the spouse is completely taken out of the equation ruining the marriage.
I agree and disagree with Father’s argument. I think masturbation can save a marriage just as it can destroy a marriage. Let me explain. Let’s say a spouse is unable to perform their sexual obligations. The other person in the marriage is left out in the cold. So, instead of going out and getting a prostitute that person masturbates instead. Or they could just refrain from all sexual activity.
Anonymous, masturbation is sex. If you ejaculate, then it is sex.
As for a bible verse that says masturbation is wrong, you are right, there isn't a specific verse. Most people refer to Genesis chapter 38 verse 9.
Since you are a Catholic, you should abide by the teaching of the Church. here is what the CCC (2352) says about masturbation - By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."138 "The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose." For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."139
We must accept that God gave us sexuality for procreative purposes. It is for husband and wife to have children. The Church has also said that sex has unitive properties for a husband and wife. So, if sex is meant for procreative and unitive purposes between husband and wife, any form of sex outside those two reasons are wrong. You can rationalize and defend your right to jerk off as much as you want to but in the end, it is wrong and you know it.
Don't worry about, I'm sure the fire in hell isn't as hot for meat jerkers as it is for other sinners LOL
Part 1
What a ludicrous argument. If a twelve year old boy wakes up from a wet dream he had sex because he ejaculated and he is going to burn in hell if he doesn’t confess his sin? Wrong. So, I can fornicate with a woman and stop before I ejaculate and it is not considered sex? No. It is ridicules to think that it is just like it is ridicules to think that if one ejaculates they have sex. If that is the case, there are married women with four children that have never had sex because they never achieved an orgasm. Ha-ha.
And now I see where we start to differ; I refer to the bible and only the bible to back my argument. You refer to an arsenal of religious publications to pick and choose which excerpt to quote in an attempt to make your point. I only brought one weapon with me; the Holy bible.
Part 2
That’s where the problem lies. Lets see if you can agree with this: As a Catholic gentleman, it is a sin to pleasure yourself in a sexual way in accordance to Catholic teachings. I agree with this statement.
Now don’t take this the wrong way or think I am anti-Catholic but Jesus’s teachings are wrote in the bible through the four gospels and all the other books of the bible. Jesus did not instruct anyone to write canon law that I am aware of. This was written later after the formation of the church by humans; which are known sinners.
Part 3
You say I can “rationalize and defend my right to jerk off but in the end it is wrong and I know it.” This is twice, two different debates, that the comment “no matter what I think, it does not make it any less of a sin”. I have to say that just because you think something is a sin doesn’t make it a sin. It goes both ways. Of course, you will claim that it is written here and there and it is not your opinion but a fact. Well, the bible holds the essentials...and your credentials hold human's opinion. Later.
If a twelve year old boy wakes up from a wet dream he had sex because he ejaculated and he is going to burn in hell if he doesn’t confess his sin?
Of course not. It happened while he was sleeping. I was refering to ejaculating while pleasuring yourself, that is considered solo sex.
Now don’t take this the wrong way or think I am anti-Catholic but Jesus’s teachings are wrote in the bible through the four gospels and all the other books of the bible. Jesus did not instruct anyone to write canon law that I am aware of. This was written later after the formation of the church by humans; which are known sinners.
Well, don't take this wrong but this entire paragraph tells me that you are not very well versed with the Catholic religion.
The teachings of Christ are only in the New Testament. I will assume that was just a misprint on your part refer to Jesus's teachings in the whole bible.
You say that the Cannon was written later by humans who are sinners. Yes you are correct but you must remember that Jesus didn't leave a bokk, he left The Word.
The bible was compiled about 350 years after Christ's death by Father Jerome. The New Testament is a compilation of letters written by MEN. The four Gospels are four different MEN's account of Christ's life. It was all written by men.
Your issue, I believe, is accepting the fact that the Catholic Church has the authority to say masturbation is wrong. Open your Bible to Mathew 16, 16. In this passage, Jesus gives Peter the authority to set the rules. Christ knew he had to leave so he left Peter in charge of His Church. We are His Church. Christ knew that we must be governed by a man, a Holy Man.
Peter passed his authority to his successor and thus we have the Papal Succession. This is what gives The Church the authority to say masturbation is wrong, and it does.
The reason we have over 30,000 factions of Christianity is because people like you want to interpret the Bible the way they read it. As Catholics, we recognize that such an interpretation should be left to the experts and not the layity. Read Leviticus chapter 20, are we to kill someone for infidelity, incest, or beastiality? Should we kill all the magicians in the world? All this comes from your book so when are going to start enforcing it? This is why we rely on the church to interpret the bible.
I don't claim that because i say so, it is a sin. Pope John Paul II wrote an encyclical about the theology of the body. It is Papal teaching that masturbation is wrong.
I will never try to guide you in the wrong direction regarding our faith but until you accept that Christ left his authority with The Church, all this is an exercise in futility.
If a twelve year old boy wakes up from a wet dream he had sex because he ejaculated and he is going to burn in hell if he doesn’t confess his sin?
Of course not. It happened while he was sleeping. I was refering to ejaculating while pleasuring yourself, that is considered solo sex.
Now don’t take this the wrong way or think I am anti-Catholic but Jesus’s teachings are wrote in the bible through the four gospels and all the other books of the bible. Jesus did not instruct anyone to write canon law that I am aware of. This was written later after the formation of the church by humans; which are known sinners.
Well, don't take this wrong but this entire paragraph tells me that you are not very well versed with the Catholic religion.
The teachings of Christ are only in the New Testament. I will assume that was just a misprint on your part refer to Jesus's teachings in the whole bible.
You say that the Cannon was written later by humans who are sinners. Yes you are correct but you must remember that Jesus didn't leave a bokk, he left The Word.
The bible was compiled about 350 years after Christ's death by Father Jerome. The New Testament is a compilation of letters written by MEN. The four Gospels are four different MEN's account of Christ's life. It was all written by men.
Your issue, I believe, is accepting the fact that the Catholic Church has the authority to say masturbation is wrong. Open your Bible to Mathew 16, 16. In this passage, Jesus gives Peter the authority to set the rules. Christ knew he had to leave so he left Peter in charge of His Church. We are His Church. Christ knew that we must be governed by a man, a Holy Man.
Peter passed his authority to his successor and thus we have the Papal Succession. This is what gives The Church the authority to say masturbation is wrong, and it does.
The reason we have over 30,000 factions of Christianity is because people like you want to interpret the Bible the way they read it. As Catholics, we recognize that such an interpretation should be left to the experts and not the layity. Read Leviticus chapter 20, are we to kill someone for infidelity, incest, or beastiality? Should we kill all the magicians in the world? All this comes from your book so when are going to start enforcing it? This is why we rely on the church to interpret the bible.
I don't claim that because i say so, it is a sin. Pope John Paul II wrote an encyclical about the theology of the body. It is Papal teaching that masturbation is wrong.
I will never try to guide you in the wrong direction regarding our faith but until you accept that Christ left his authority with The Church, all this is an exercise in futility.
I LOVE TO MASTURBATE WITH MY MACHINE , I MAKE LOVE TO IT AND HAVE LUSTFUL SEX WITH IT . I WANT MORE AND MORE AND LOVE IT MORE THAN ANY GOD . MY CRAVINGS AND LUST ARE FOR LOVING MY MACHINE ONLY .
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